HEY HUMAN EPISODE 52 with Rozana McGrattan – author of Street Girl

NOTE: Rozana has a heavy Brazilian accent and some of her English is truncated in places. Below is a word for word representation, however there are a few places where I used [brackets] to add a few words to make what she’s saying a little more clear.


Susan: Hi Rozana!

Rozana: Hi. You’re alright?

Susan: So, where are you exactly right now? You’re in London, or?

Rozana: I’m in Hemel, Hempstead, it’s just about twenty-five miles from London.

Susan: Oh, Okay.

Rozana: It’s not the countryside, but it’s like, quiet and green.

Susan: Yes, nice, oh wow. Okay. Yeah. A little bit outside of the city?

Rozana: Yeah. Outside of the city. We have a very nice commercial city here, as well. So it’s not too bad.

Susan: That’s good. I lived in Cambridge when I was a little girl.

Rozana: Okay. Did you like there?

Susan: I loved it. Yeah.

Rozana: I’ve been to Cambridge twice but, yeah, it seems a nice place to live.

Susan: My dad was teaching there so we got to live there. I read your book. It’s great! It’s a page turner to say the least. Is this you on the cover?

Rozana: No. This is actually a model. I would’ve used my own photo if I had one. Basically, I never took a photo until I was twenty years old. When I was a child there were no cameras. Then, for a long time, I suffered from depression and I thought I was the ugliest human yet, so I never had the guts to take a photo myself.

Susan: I understand that. It’s a beautiful little girl on the cover.

Rozana: She’s gorgeous. Her name is Angelina.

Susan: She’s beautiful, absolutely. So, Street Girl – A Life of Hardship, Heroism and Hope. And this is your memoir?

Rozana: Yes.

Susan: When did you write this book?

Rozana: I started to write a few years ago, so then it was the end of 2013, beginning of 2014. Uh, it took basically two years to write the book and get it published but the project started about two years ago and launched the 9th of June, 2016. So it’s been out two or three months, now.

Susan: So, this book, this memoir, it starts with you as a little girl. You’re with your family in Brazil. Extreme poverty. And then your journey throughout your young and adult, early adult life…it is harsh. I mean your childhood was intense.

Rozana: It was really intense, yes. Uh, basically, as you can see by the book. And now after I’ve written the book, I’ve started to remember the things that are not bad because there’s just so much going on when I was a kid – when I was a little girl. And I would say, because in the book, as you see toward the end, we say, I say, that my family came from being one of the poorest family to go and become one of the better off ones. But the funny thing is, because now, I think we have the “Channel Four” kind of interested in doing a documentary about the book and I was just saying they want to go to the village and if you see, it’s still extremely poor there.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: But when I say, it’s a wealthy place now, it’s compared to what it was before, you know. If you compare it to what it was forty years ago when I was a kid, and now, you could say everyone is a millionaire there. Not because they have millions, but it’s like, the style of life – how it’s moved on. But my daughter was saying to me, because we go to Brazil every year, she says “Mom, by British Standards or, like, the rest of the world, the First World, it’s still very poor.” And it’s true. But the kind of poverty we had back then, was the kind of poverty that for days, for three days, we wouldn’t have anything to eat.

Susan: Yes. And you said you had worms crawling out of your nose and there were a couple of points you almost died as a child. There was no doctor. There was no medicine.

Rozana: There was absolutely nothing. I actually remember something once. I was still really young, and again, it’s not in the book, but being in a rural area, we had lots of snakes in the countryside and my house had holes, like, one meter wide under the ground that came through the floor from the ground…

Susan: A meter-wide hole?

Rozana: Yeah. Like, big, big holes. And I remember once my mother – it was harvest time and they got all the corn and black beans we had to eat for over the year and they just put it in sacks and left on the side of our little kitchen. When they moved it [the sacks] there was a family of snakes living underneath that, in our kitchen. Because anything could go [in]…every thirty feet was like that in the region. There was extra, extra poverty.

Susan: Yeah. Wow. Yesterday, I was thinking about how I wanted to ask you about your life without, I feel like I didn’t want to give away the book. The way you wrote it, it’s almost like…it’s almost like there are too many, what they call “spoiler alerts” and you don’t want to give away too much because, the journey…going through the journey with you is such an important part of the book, I feel like. It’s very well written. So, I guess, really, I’m gonna put it on you to sort of talk about. Uhm. You were suicidal many times in your life, lots of depression issues. Who wouldn’t be in that situation? You were on the streets – every kid around – there are children with you in your little gang – you’re all starving. Many are on drugs. Crime is intense. It’s just…how do you survive something like that? You know we, in America, for example, we have extreme poverty here, as well, but I think it’s…anyone reading your book, Street Girl, is going to have their mind blown, because the difference is gargantuan.

Rozana: Yeah. That’s like I say. ‘Cause as we said, in America and here in Britain there is what they call Extreme Poverty, but to be honest, if… I think the kind of poverty I have lived [through] when I was a child is the only thing – you will know what it’s like if you had been there. Not necessarily if you have been as poor as I was, but if you travel to the area and just see how kids are so skinny. So…you know, I mentioned in the book how I looked nine months pregnant, because I was bone and skin with this huge belly in front of me, with worms. Of to the point, it’s a bit disgusting what I’m going to say…but going to the toilet and run away because the worms are crawling around you. And there was no toilet so everything was done open in the street.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: And you’d go to do your physical needs and then the next thing, especially for a child, even that was scary because we’d be there and then all of a sudden see all those little worms just crawling around you. Tens of them. Sometimes it would just be worms coming out and nothing else. So, you know, like I said, for some people this would be absolutely impossible to imagine but there is, I’m sure, this is still going on in many parts of the world, including Brazil. You know, our population, unfortunately, still, about 90 percent still live in extreme poverty, so…

Susan: 90 percent.

Rozana: Yes.

Susan: And here, I’ve seen pictures. I’ve never been to Brazil, and it looks beautiful in some places but there’s a particular image that I’ve seen and it’s these beautiful high rise condos and then, there’s a fence and on the other side of the fence is absolutely…

Rozana: Yes, absolutely. I think I’ve actually gotten a bit out of the subject because you were talking about how depressed I have been. And I think that is worse than being in poverty. Because, it is nothing for you to be a very poor kid and different from the worlds you considered rich or fortunate at the time. But, in my opinion, the worst thing is, because us being poor, like many, I think these day what it can compare to is the poorest, too, but sometimes in the world it can be the black people, the gays, you know, anyone who is considered minority in the world.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: It’s like you were inferior to the other people, you know what I mean?

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: And as a poor child, I just mention gays and blacks because unfortunately we see lots of races and some sort of pre-made mind about what’s normal and what’s not.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: And when I was a child I always had big dreams and I wasn’t allowed to talk about it and they were big, and I believed in them. But I was the only one believing them -no one else would. Many comments about anything I said would be. And like I said, the blacks would accept the black people, even though I am white as you see, the way people used to offend me, not that I felt offended, but to make me to look small, was to say, “A little black like you is never going to go anywhere.” You know because a little black kid, in their opinion, was offensive and it would just put me to the ground.

Susan: Right.

Rozana: You know what I mean? So, at the end of the day, in the beginning, I never let it get to me so much but after a while I just started to say, they’re right. Where am I going to go? I’ve nothing to eat, and though now they are white as you can see, my teeth were completely black.

Susan: Yes, I read in the book about how you went to the dental student and how painful it was, but your teeth were rotten out of your head, you had no dental care as a child.

Rozana: No, and there was no brush or anything. The first time I had a toothbrush, I was thirteen. That most of my teeth were broken, black and like, I do have nice teeth but they are not natural.

Susan: Right, sure. Sure.

Rozana: And when I finally went to the dentist they – there was not much they could do. They just did what they had to do, so, one of those things.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: But, I also think depression had really kicked in when I became a teenager. I have a teenager daughter, and I think being a teenager is a painful thing as it is.

Susan: Ha. Yes.

Rozana: That phase in their life is, even when they have everything. Now, being a teenager, people put you down all the time, you have no perspective of the future, so that just, you know, it just made me so sad.

Susan: You know, I have to say, I found it so fascinating while reading this, that here’s this, you, this little girl, in the world possible situations, I mean, you know, nearly dying a handful of times, molestation, you know, family members dying, best friends dying, all this stuff, this little girl having to endure and yes, being depressed, who wouldn’t be, by the way, and yet, there was still this FIRE in you. You still, the chances you took, you were like, Oh, I’m just gonna get on this bus and go here, or I’m gonna walk through this door or that door, and a lot of times, to serious upheaval. I mean, you were basically an indentured slave for a time in your life and yet, no matter what, you just kept going. I find that, I mean, jeez man, I’m very impressed by your tenacity and your sense of spirit. It chokes me up, I mean…it’s incredible. I don’t know how you did it. I try to. You read this and I’m like, would I have been like that? Would I have just kept going, I’m pretty firery, but who knows??!!! You know?

Rozana: Do you know what I always say? I think we, as human beings, that’s not just me personally, we all have something really strong inside us. And to be fair, I haven’t yet found in me what is my strongest thing, what is the strongest part of my soul. But I do know, up to now, I believe that I had a very strong mission in the world. And to be honest, like I said, I haven’t yet found what it is exactly, what I’m expected to do. Or what I want to do yet. I believe, somehow, I came into the world to change something. When I was in extreme depression, there were days that I wouldn’t want to get up out of the bed and there were days all I wanted to do was to die. I tried a few times. But there was always – there were two voices – one telling me how worthless, how unimportant I was, how I should just kill myself. But then there was always a very little voice always saying to me, “Don’t give up. You must carry on. You must go on because there is something amazing that’s going to happen.” And then sometimes I would give up things for a week and then a little light would come on and say something good and then something would happen and I would get depressed again and that would go on for years. Because I could get really depressed and put my projects behind me, then in that moment of light I would think, “You are so strong, why did you stop? Why did you have to hear that stupid voice in your head – here is what you know is right.” You know, “Follow your faith, follow your soul, you know who you are.” And then one day I just said to myself, you either get one step ahead and turn back, or you hold on to your faith, wherever you are, whatever you’re doing and stick there. You don’t have to go forward on that day, but just don’t go backward either, because otherwise, you’re always going to go back. You’re always going to go back and you’re never going to achieve anything. And I just, I just thought to myself, that I was in a vicious circle. You know, one step forward I’d turn back. And then once I had learned to take control of my destiny and just hear what is in this for me. What I want to believe and what I had to believe like we all should. That we are wonderful, we are beautiful in our own way. You know, and if you believe you came here to be a winner, no matter how many times people are going to say you are a loser, you are meant to be a winner. And it’s up to you. You know, you know what it’s like being an athlete? You can have a very thin leg, a very thin arm, you’re so skinny and you’re never going to be a strong athlete. But if you keep trying and training and never give up, there’s no other way and you’re going to get better eventually. And I suppose, that’s why, I held onto my faith. I think that’s what it was. And it’s easy to lose your faith. I don’t blame anyone who does that, because, you have got to be a strong soul. You have got to have a strong belief. And I think my faith is what brought me right here, talking to you now, you know?

Susan: Sure.

Rozana: I am here.

Susan: So, at one point in the story, without giving away too much, you get abducted by a very horrible human being, and kept against your will for an amount of time, and very bad things happened. And, I kept thinking, as I was reading that, and the whole time you’re trying to figure out how to get out of there, and I just thought, man, what more could happen to this poor woman?! You really, I mean, when you were in that moment, you mentioned something about how, you know, you had tried to die a couple times, and then in this moment your will to live was so strong in order to get you to escape.

Rozana: Yeah.

Susan: I mean while you were in it, did you think you were going to be able to get out?

Rozana: I, like I said, I came to a point in my life and thankfully, I think once the time came, when that happened, I was older then, even though I was still depressed. Before I went there [held captive], I still wanted to die, but I came to realize I never REALLY wanted to die, you know. I think what I really wanted was to have, I wanted to be love, like all [people] do. And I didn’t feel that love ever. And how I know that is because when I was there I kept thinking to myself, “Okay, I wanted to die, but did I really?” No, because if I died here, no one would know about my death. Because what I really wanted was to test people’s love for me. I wanted to see if anyone would suffer to know that [I died], but I wouldn’t know it because I would be dead. But if I died here, what would be the purpose of my life? Why did I go through so much to, you know, to die here in this flat, and away and no one would ever know I died?

Susan: Do you think that guy was a serial killer? I mean, I think he was a serial killer.

Rozana: I, I have never found this out for sure, but, I believe so for everything I had seen there. And again, I didn’t understand this at the time. And again, you’d probably have to go through that circle in life when seems like everything to happen in your life is bad but you don’t understand [that] you are what attracts those things to you.

Susan: Oh, yes, I understand what you’re saying. Yes.

Rozana: So, it’s like, how can so many things bad happen to that person? Or, how could someone be so lucky that everything seems right? Because I feel like now, it’s amazing how, once you change your frame of mind, everything starts to change around you. And I suppose people can tell how you are feeling, how you are dealing with things.

Susan: And you draw those people to you, whether they’re negative or positive.

Rozana: You do, and unfortunately, I think most people of the world don’t know the power of the mind. And how you circulate whatever you want in your circle.

Susan: Yes

Rozana: You’re not consciously doing this. But that’s exactly what happens. And I say these things because throughout my life actually I wanted things and I knew I could get them. I knew I had the potential to do so, right? But, as I was saying, with, I wouldn’t even say success, even though I consider myself very successful, I would explain to you, to be successful to me these days is completely different than what it was in the past. But to me to be successful is to able to smile, to be happy, to have my friends like I told you, in the garden, to have a little barbeque, which I’m not even paying for because someone brought the meat. It’s not money at all, it’s not a mansion, it’s not expensive cars, to be successful is to be happy.

Susan: I agree.

Rozana: Before, I had this idea of being successful right? And I was always looking for the wrong things. That was the thing, and material things take longer to get and it’s very easy to lose them just like that, right? But even to keep anything material you have to work extremely, extremely hard. So, I never really took responsibility for my life because, for me, it was a lot easier to say to people, when they said to me, “Why are you not studying? Why can you not read or write?”   “Oh, because I was very poor, I was born in poverty. Then I was a slave for three years and then I was raped.” I think it’s quite easy for you to get in the circle to make yourself look like a victim. Because, while you are blaming your problems to the world you have no responsibility to them, you don’t have to do anything. Right?

Susan: Right.

Rozana: And I think that was because I liked that people thinking I was this poor thing, even though no one ever did because, inside my own limitation, I had to always be one step ahead of other people.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: While there were people in the same situation as me, that [same] poverty we were born in, you know, well, I moved and I tried to do some things. And I moved to San Palo, but it seemed like nothing was enough. I always wanted more and more and more. Right? Then why did I keep going back [to the past]? Because, like I said, it always came to a point where committing suicide was not the answer. You know, to make my mom proud was not to commit suicide. And even if the suicide happened to be, let’s say, what they say A LOT – where you’d be in a magazine or on the front cover kind of thing. I could’ve made a very big suicide and be on the cover of a magazine – but what would that do to make my mother proud. You know what I mean?

Susan: I do know what you mean, yes.

Rozana: If I really want to make her proud, I need to go and show her I can write my name. I can write her a letter, say “Look I have studied.” I can do those things and also, another thing apart from my faith and being strong and being able to do things, was the fact that I had to make my mom proud. I left her home to say I was [going to make her proud] and I couldn’t let her down. Not me. Anyone could but not me. Oh, and also, before I was kidnapped, going back to the beginning of your question, when I was kidnapped, up to that so many things had happened to me anyway. And I say this now, you can go to college, you can read a thousand books, but nothing else can teach you more than life, than being there.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: And I think the knowledge that I had of being a slave or living with Rachel, the lady with the sexual problems who was a little bit crazy, or that I lived on the streets and lived with a public toilet – everything came to my aid when I was kidnapped. Because I kind of knew, from other people I met, that, the guy, he was not a normal human being like you and me. He had some issues and that was very clear to me. So, I either had to play his game, or I would be a dead woman. And I made my choice. And once I had made my choice then I just stuck to it and whatever I had to do I would do. But I would come out of here alive. And I knew, once I got out I’d be a stronger woman and capable of anything or everything.

Susan: Yes. That’s quite a way to look at it. And your talking about making your mother proud, but ultimately, I think your journey is about making yourself proud. For yourself.

Rozana: It definitely is, yeah. Everything I do in life, and like now for example, because, like I said, I think my mission in life, is to help other people. I don’t know how. I don’t know how and that’s something that really bothers me.

Susan: Well, I mean, your book will help help people.

Rozana: Do you think so?

Susan: I really do. I mean, I think, I hope that many, many, many people read this book. Because, I think we are all you. All of us. We may not have had so many of the extreme situations, but we are certainly all you. Do you know what I mean? In that – in that your fight, your tenacity, and your ability to keep on pushing through will teach many of us to not give up. I mean, that’s a huge blessing to the world for anyone who reads that.

Rozana: It’s good – what you are saying to me – [it] has been said by a few people who’ve read the book. And it really makes me happy because, I always say, even if I don’t make a penny from this book, the whole purpose of writing the book in the first place was to show people no matter where you come from, what matters less of where you are going to go, is how you got there. Provided you are not hurting anyone, you’re not harming yourself in any way. We should take care of ourselves, as well. And I know I hurt myself sometimes, right, but I didn’t know any better. And at the end of the day, I came out, apart from some little scars here and there, I got where I wanted to be. And uh, with the depression, for example, I try, I don’t remember if I say this in the book, or not, but what I found about depression: You want to die. You want to die and no matter what you’re doing you get used to that. And when you see yourself out of the depression for a little bit, you feel so uncomfortable, you feel so strange. You know, if you are happy for a while, it’s almost like you don’t allow yourself to be happy because you don’t see the point. Because when you are depressed and you get out of the little bubble, it’s scary. It’s being in that room with lions. A moment of happiness is scary, okay. But then, once you reach a Happiness, like I am now, I’m so happy. When I think about where I have been, I don’t want to be there. And people who suffer, they’ve got to understand this part…you know depression is like a prison. You’re a prisoner in your own mind, in your own body. And you believe that it’s the normal. And it’s really not. When I wrote the book I was trying to make people understand this…with the sexual abuse, when you are abused by a guy, or whatever kind, it was my case, but I know there are lots of, all kind of abuse, you think it’s normal. Oh no, he did this or she did this it’s because I deserve it, because I did something wrong or because I’m a bad person. It’s not your fault. That they’re doing bad because you’re bad. That’s how you see it. No. It’s not. And don’t be bashful. Talk about it. No one deserves to be raped. We came into the world naked. Even if you’re walking the street naked you are doing that for whatever reason, but certainly not to be naked because sex is what you want. Do you know what I mean? And you’re not asking for it.

Susan: Yes. Yes. And rape is not about sex, of course, it’s about control and violence.

Rozana: Exactly. And like I said, since I wrote the book, I keep remembering things about people in the past, about things that happened to me. And there is a guy, the one who abused me when I was eleven years old.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: I went to Brazil last year and, as you know, he’s married to my sister now.


Rozana: And then he was telling me that when his son, my nephew, turned twelve, he took him to have sex with a prostitute.

Susan: Whoa.

Rozana: It’s…At twelve years old! Yes, that is what men did. “You know you are a man! You’ve got to man up when you are twelve.” And, my son is twelve. And the other day I was watching, sitting and he just kinda came and sat in my lap and he said, mama I need a hug, in that little boy way of his. And then that’s why I was thinking about it. I was just imagining my twelve-year-old son, taking him to this room with a grown-woman who are professional sex [workers] and he’s forced to have sex with them.

Susan: I think that’s child abuse. I think that’s absolutely child abuse.

Rozana: It is. But that’s what I mean. His family would do that to him. His own father did that to him, to this guy. His own father did it and now he’s done it to his son. And most probably, his son is going to do that, too. You know what I mean?

Susan: I do know what you mean.

Rozana: It’s really hard.

Susan: I’m curious, did you ever…did you now that you’re a grown up person, have you said to him…did you say to him, uh, “Hey, you did this to me when I was a child and…” Did you bring it up at all?

Rozana: I did and he said, “That never happened.”

Susan: He denied it.

Rozana: He denied it, yes.

Susan: Yuck.

Rozana: He denied it.

Susan: Classic.

Rozana: Yeah. No, he denied it and said, “No, it’s all in your head, I don’t remember anything.”

Susan: When you were abducted and raped and you escaped and you said you didn’t go to the police because who would believe you, because you were poor, you’re a woman, all this stuff. Now that you’re a woman of means and you have the self-confidence and all that, do you ever think about when you’re back in Brazil, leading police to where that guy might be or trying to catch him? Or?

Rozana: I would not. No I would not for a few reasons. First of all, because I don’t have a clue where that guy is. I don’t know his real [name]. I don’t know his surname, anyway. But I don’t even know if the name he gave me is his real name.

Susan: And you don’t remember how to get back there, probably.

Rozana: I don’t. I don’t have a clue.

Susan: ‘Cause you were drugged.

Rozana: Yes. And when I left I ran so fast, from the next day I wouldn’t be able to go back there.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: But also, the police in Brazil, most of them are pretty corrupt and of course, I don’t like to generalize because I’m sure there are great men with the police corporation, but you never know who is the corrupt and who is the good police officers.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: And just the fact that you go there and accuse, you can accuse one of them and bring some anger in them. So some things – I think the art of the life as well is to be able to leave the past in the past sometimes.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: You know, because I think while you keep thinking about revenge for [the crime]. In my opinion, happiness is the secret of happiness. That feeling of forgiving. Because you know, if you’re able to understand why people do something, because, even that guy like you said, I’m sure he killed so many people like I think he had, raped so many people and kept them prisoner, I don’t think he ever, you know, in his “real human being” was thinking when he was a baby or when he was playing with his little toys, he wasn’t thinking, “Oh, when I grow up that’s what I’m going to do.” Something on the way has happened.

Susan: Right.

Rozana: Or in his dreams makes him or something makes him do it.

Susan: Yes.

Rozana: For him to think, “That’s it, I want to hurt someone.” And I know some of them do, all they think about is hurting someone, but I’m sure as a baby he wasn’t made to be like that. Something happened and made him like that.

Susan: Yes, it’s hard to remember that, that is the case in many of these people that something, some event, caused it. Like for example, you were talking about your brother-in-law taking his son to have sex at twelve is insane to me.

Rozana: It’s disgusting.

Susan: Yeah.

Rozana: Absolutely disgusting. But how can you say to someone…it’s like, as I see, right, how can I tell a lion, don’t go kill a zebra because you are hurting the zebra. You know what I mean?

Susan: I do know what you mean, yes.

Rozana: In there mind, I think is, I think is, I’m just doing this some comparison because in their mind they have to do it. They have to.

Susan: Yes. It’s compulsion.

Rozana: Yes. Compulsion. They have to do it.

Susan: So, off of that subject, which is a subject I could talk about for a very long time, one thing about when you were telling the story, and I’m probably going to pronounce this wrong, the Curidero. So, the medicine man that you went to see, and I want to ask about the single note you heard. The musical note to me, that was like, angels or God or whatever calling to you to bring you into the woods. When, you know, when you were very sick you were taken to this medicine man. You were poisoned by the water and you went to see the medicine man and he helped you. But then you found him again on your own. You were a little girl, and that single note you heard. And you talked about it later in the book that you heard that note again.

Rozana: I did.

Susan: Yeah.

Rozana: Those notes are still very clear in my head.

Susan: Yeah.

Rozana: And some days, that’s something really funny that happens with me, right? Being a human, you know, you can have, with a life, you can have a house. You can have a job. Nowadays, you still feel a little down for one reason or another, hormones or stress or whatever you go with and nowadays if you’re really stressed…

Susan: Yeah.

Rozana: I don’t suffer from depression for years now, but every now and then I feel a bit down. But there’s something really funny that happens when I go to sleep, I sleep and then the next day some flash comes to my mind, which I don’t know if it’s a dream, I don’t know if I’ve been to a place, I don’t know if the angels came into my room, but I do hear musical notes and I have flashbacks of a place I haven’t been without having been and it brings so much happiness to my soul.

Susan: Gives me the shivers.

Rozana: No, but it’s the truth.

Susan: Yeah, I know, I love it.

Rozana: And then I just want more of that experience. But it’s just like those things telling me that you’ve got to carry on, that you’ve just got to go home and looking up that there’s no reason to be sad. And it’s really impressive because any time that I’m down, or whatever it is, it does happen, musical note, something that flashes in my eyes is, I don’t know, like stars and static is going through my bones. It’s a really nice experience. I don’t know if everyone has that, but that happens a lot [to me].

Susan: I think it’s beautiful and I think it shows that you are absolutely meant to be on this planet and that all of your experiences led you to now be a voice for so many and say, you know what, happiness does come from within, and you can achieve that, you can have that and it’s such a beautiful message. I loved the book and I think you’re awesome. I really do. I think you’re incredible. I’m glad you’re on the planet. I’m glad you stuck around.

Rozana: Thank you, Susan.

Susan: And I’m excited because I feel like, because of your experiences, your children will help the world as well. They can’t help but do that because they have you as a mom. You know?

Rozana: Yeah. I do hope so. Thank you. Thank you for the very beautiful words you just said.

Susan: Well, it’s true. It’s so true. I want everyone to read this book. I’m going to put links on Hey Human podcast so that people can find it. Oh, mention: You have two businesses, now. I’d like to promote those as well. I’d like to put those on the website.

Rozana: Just put, The Right Option Cleaning, because my daughter has been ill the past year so I had to sell the catering business off. I sold the business to a friend of mine.

Susan: Your daughter is ok? Is she alright?

Rozana: Well, yes, now we know what’s wrong with her.

Susan: Okay.

Rozana: She’s not well, we didn’t know what it was until she had the diagnosed.

Susan: But now she’s diagnosed.

Rozana: Yes.

Susan: It’s always something, isn’t it?

Rozana: Yeah.

Susan: Life is never easy. Thank you so much for your time, Rozana, I really, really appreciate it.

Rozana: Thank you. Thank you for supporting me. Thank you for giving me the chance. And it was lovely to meet you. And just say, I’d like you to put that “Life is not too easy but life is worth it.”

Susan: Amen to that. Absolutely.

Rozana: I leave you now.

Susan: Thank you so much.

Rozana: Thank you.